Hye Sharzhoom, January 1980

              Page 12
Hye Sharzhoom
January 11,1980
Black Studies Prof
From Page 11
Malkasian—Can blacks learn anything
from the Armenian experience?
George—No doubt they can. I think it's
mutual. I suspect that probably what will
have to be learned concerns the whole
myth of Europe at this point, which is very
much part and parcel of the hegemony
that is practiced by Western culture. I
think it would be very salubrious for
people on both sides to discover the
Middle Eastern roots, to discover the
intermingling of Armenian people with
Middle Eastern people. I don't mean to
biologize history but it is undeniably a
point that has be be made when one's
detractors, one's oppressors, are
constantly pointing to the color of one's
skin as an explanation for the progress or
lack of progress when in fact an actual
reading of history shows that
pigmentation is not a prediction for
civilizational excellence or any kind of
achievement. So it amounts to disproving
the racist theoreticians and in the study of
Armenian history black people would
find much that is informative in
debunking the myth of Europe.
Malkasian—I'm also talking about the
historical relations of Armenians with
various oppressors.
George—Certainly that would provide
an historical setting in a different
geographical locale. The comparison
with black culture would be the diaspora
because of the fact that African
descendant from the Continent have
interacted in various locations
throughout the world. And that
comparison of oppressed and oppressor
would be an informative discussion. I
think it's healthy to expand our discussion
to the limits of human achievement and
away from these notions of strictly racial
achievement. It's not to say that one can't
find the consciousness of kind in the early
days of humanity but the consciousness
of kind early on tended to be religious
and not racial and it's only as we get closer
to the modern world that we find this
whole preoccupation with race to be
meaningful. I think that transition would
be exposed in the study of Armenian
history. I would be curious to turn that
around. I wonder how Armenian people
feed about being classified as white in
American society when here "whiteness"
means privi ledge, arrogance, European
civilization and superiority.
Malkasian—Can a minority group be
integrated into American society and still
retain its ethnic identity?
George—Probably not at the level of
integrity of culture. The reasoning goes
back to the nature of the American social
structure. There is a cultural apparatus in
American society dominated by a specific
cultural elite. But there are various levels
of incorporation into American society
and I think it would be better to speak of
incorporate rather than integrate or
assimilate because what happened in the
case of black people is that we've always
been incorporated physically into
society. Being assimilated is an entirely
different matter. So at one level you find
black people very much integrated into
society and that integration has tended to
reflect class differences. To the extent
that the group is in fact integrated, and
assimilated, within the American context,
by definition as far as I'm concerned, that
group ceases to have separate cultural
identity. It becomes an appeandage, a
display of a sort of ritualized form which
doesn't have the vitality of connection
to the roots of the culture.
Malkasian—Does a rise in economic
status diminish individual ethnicity?
George—To the extent that the person
rises on the social ladder, he also is de-
ethnicized, he's stripped of those
peculiar characteristics that come from
his community. The solution to that is to
tie that rise in status to a general rise in the
status of the community itself. I think
really what we're getting at is this sort of
inherent nature, this reducing to
common denominator process that
American majority culture involves—as
the group ascends the economic ladder,
its cultural trends tend to drop by the
wayside. The process has that built into it
and I think that it has be be a recognized
danger. In any minority group, it is the
priviledged stratum that always has this
difficult problem of whether to renege on
its cultural roots and go forward into the
cultural abyss or try to preserve cultural
forms while enjoying a priveleged status.
Malkasian — Is integration and
assimilation, then, a desirable goal?
George—It isn't so much assimilation
or inclusion into American society. It's
the terms of that inclusion. On whose
terms—terms that dictate that black
people have to "oreos," black on the
outside and white on the inside, or on
terms that allow all groups to contribute
their own culture to the larger society?
And there must be basic material equality
as a basis for social interaction on an
egalitarian plane. Being included is not
really the issue. We're here. We're part of
the society. But it is the terms of the
inclusion that are crucial. I think those
that are assimilated simply accept
conventional terms, accept the terms in
which you give up your heritage, give up
who you are.
:il& (TliP.MlMF
The Armenian Movement
Editors -MarkMalkasian, Bill Erysian
Staff - Dick Ashjian, Warren Paboojian,
Barlow  Der Mugrdechian,   Bryan
Bedrosian, Bill Sahatdjian Varoujan Der
Simonian, Alan Atamian and Marx Arax
Ad. Manager - Janalee Gazarian
Advisors   -   Dr.    Dickran    Kouymjian
and Allan Jendian
The "Hye Sharzhoom" is the official publication of the CSUF Armenian Students Organization.
Armenian Studies Program
CSUF
Fresno, CA 93740
r»nmnMfrNVu
MppuiG uipgniGp,
flppuiG jmqnul,
HppuiG puijupd pU ^npurj.pC.
ImjGpuiG dxqpw,
tmiGrjiuG fipfimiuGp,
tmjGpuiG q.pG|T ptf yipunliG...
Ophp jnjup,
Ophp injup, hpiuqp.
Ophp gimp,
Ophp luigh ni umqp...
T^GrjqpGp duirumri,
Uui IjUuiGrj linyiinri
<l,uil|uiuuil)uiG u^Huupfip fiuiGuiiquipfip tfiupn,l|mj»hiuG
lp juGrpiii&buruV uipinilnq&huiilp
U\\ l|pl]Gmp
ITjihiGnjG opnuuj uiuipphp dxutfhpniG.
UphiGnjG uiGaji iniupphp ophpniG...
Uui u^hiuTpfip —
]uuinG]i6uir[iuGri hi puipm|&hiuG hi £iupni|&hiuG,
l"»pnr[mi&|iiG hi iuGul|hqp hi uiGiluijufiiuG:
^UPflhcHVu StP UMm'uDUVb
Garry recounts boyhood,
assesses racism in US
By Bill Erysian
More than 200 Armenians last month
had the rare opportunity of hearing the
renowned and controversial defense
attorney, Charles Garry speak on racism,
which he feels is still a predominant force
existing in today's society.
Garry, who has a long-standing
reputation for defending such
controversial figures as Black Panther
activist Huey Newton, began his speech
with an air of deep sentimentalism at the
annual AGBU Banquet.
In a somber tone, Garry related his
early years growing up in Fresno County
and the discrimination he suffered for
being an Armenian. He said the hard
times of his youth taught him what racism
is and what it means to be a member of a
minority, explaining that those years
instilled in him a deep-rooted conviction
to defend the socially-oppressed
individual.
"I hate Fresno County," he said. "I hate
every part of it because I have sensed and
Teit ficism to its highest level."
The 70-year-old attorney said he
aTtribules his success in defending
minority figures to his personal hatred of
racism. He is a man of strong
perseverance.
"Yes, I have hate in my heart and I don't
intend to give it up," Garry said. "Because
once I give it up—then I'm giving up the
battle that we would have a world where
we don't have such a thing as racism."
Using the Armenians as a foundation,
Garry reinforced his conviction that the
problems Third V ->rld p .p/e in the US
are facing toddy em from racism. He
cited the example of his defense of Huey
Newton in stressing the difficulty of
finding the citizen (jury member) who has
no prejudices. "Every one of us has
prejudgments of some kind," Garry said,
referring to what he calls subjective and
objective racism.
Garry recognizes that racism and
sexism in Fresno County are not as overt
toward Armenians as it was in the past.
But using such words as "white
supremists," he added that "The
subjective mentality is still ther—the
feeling that you are inferior and we are
superior."
Covering a wide spectrum of topics, the
stern, yet compassionate Garry touched
on the subject of power in society. He said
people now get power through ballots
and proudly pointed to the success of the
Armenians in emphasizing this
achievement.
"Today, the Armenian Community in
Fresno has created its own power because
of its own strength," he said. But Garry
added, "Let's not forget the other
minorities who have not been able to
create the political power—the strength
of organizations like the Armenians."
Garry's dedication in fighting for
minorities coupled with his outspoken
viewpoints, creates a strong-willed man
who is unafraid to speak his mind.
He perhaps wont to the root of the
problem by declaring that society doesn't
look for the answers to crime.
"We have not understood that crime
and poverty go hand-in-hand," he said.
"Sexism, racism, ageism and elitism,"
Garry said, "are underlying the problems
of crime and poverty. He said these
problems cannot be solved until we find
the answers to crime and poverty.